Exclusive: Jürgen Klopp on the power of a positive mindset
There seems to be a sense of unease about the future around the world. How are you feeling?
I’m very optimistic. That’s how I approach the future. Of course, that doesn’t apply to every aspect of life or to everything happening in the world. Everything is changing. Many resources we long believed to be infinite are becoming scarcer and more expensive for all sorts of reasons. And a lot of things are simply beyond our control. That’s the point: I’m optimistic about the things I can influence. With everything else, events and trends, you have to live with them and somehow deal with them.
That sounds easy to say.
Of course, many people suffer far more than I do, given my privileged position. I’m aware of that. I’m sitting here at 58, having lived a life I wouldn’t have dared to dream of as a young man. A lot has gone very, very well. But 40 years ago, I was already the same person, with the same values. You could call that “groundless optimism.” I always believe it will turn out well.
Do you have to be an optimist to succeed in elite sports? You grew up in the Black Forest, one of millions of boys dreaming of a career in football. The odds are basically zero.
I loved the game deeply and was one of the best in the region. But even back then, the realist in me knew: I’m not good enough. Maybe I underestimated myself a bit. I had a very, very average professional career, one that made everything afterwards possible. Because I certainly wouldn’t be the coach I am today if I hadn’t dragged myself through 325 matches in German second-division stadiums. You really do need optimism to fulfil your dreams. It makes the time while you’re pursuing them more enjoyable. But realism matters too: “What are my talents? Where can I make a difference? Pessimism alone is useless to me”.
Klopp enjoyed great success with Borussia Dortmund
© Norman Konrad
Klopp now works with teams in the US, Brazil, Germany and Japan
© Norman Konrad
There was even more success during his spell at Liverpool
© Norman Konrad
Why?
Pessimism usually stems from past experiences where things didn’t turn out as hoped. That experience often leads people to stop believing in what they might achieve in the future. For me, things that didn’t work in the past are simply information that they didn’t work. I never allowed that to hold me back beyond the failure itself.
Klopp's first steps into coaching with Mainz
How do you ignite a team, a club, an entire city?
Everything has its time: grief, anger, reflection. The worst defeats of my life were the missed promotions with Mainz 05. Suddenly, this small club had a chance to reach the Bundesliga and we failed on the final matchday by one point. At that point, it was the worst day of my life. I had no positive vision of the future at all. After a night of heavy drinking, the world looked different again. ‘Sleep on it’ is genuinely advice I’d give everyone before making a big decision.
Optimism on its own is nice. But when you share it with others, it has a truly powerful effect
And then?
The next morning, I was already thinking: we were so good, so close, let’s optimise a little and we’ll make it next year. And then we missed promotion again, this time by one goal. I felt bullied by the football gods. Those were life-changing defeats. I knew that if I failed a third time, my big coaching career would be over. But then we finally made it, and I was saved. The Champions League final defeats in 2013, 2018 and 2022 didn’t feel good either. But I knew they wouldn’t change my life anymore. It was a luxury problem. Whether there’s one more trophy on the shelf or not isn’t ultimately that important. But those early defeats shaped me, no question.
Most people would have dug a hole and crawled into it.
That’s not possible in that role. Players usually think only as far as the next training session or match, no criticism, I was the same. But someone has to show the path and create the feeling that the goals are attainable. After the second missed promotion with Mainz, I stood on a stage and said that maybe the football god was running an experiment on us: whether you can fall not just once, but twice or even three times and still come out stronger. And I said that there is no better club and no better city than Mainz for this experiment. In that moment, the 25 players, the 20,000 people in front of the stage, everyone believed it. At the first training session, 10,000 people showed up and gave us momentum for the season. Optimism on its own is nice. But when you share it with others, it has a truly powerful effect.
Let's stay in Mainz for a moment longer. In 2001, the then sporting director, Christian Heidel, called you and asked if you could take over as player-coach. How did you get the confidence to tackle such challenges?
You could sum it up as youthful recklessness. I was 33 years old, had a degree in sports science, but no experience. The question wasn't: “Can you do it for the rest of the season?” But rather: “Can you prepare the team for Wednesday?” And then I thought: “Yes, I can do that”. And then we won six of the first seven games. That was a decent start.
The lesson being think in small steps.
Exactly. In football, journalists don't like it when you say, “I'm taking it one game at a time”. But it's true nonetheless. There's no alternative. Setting yourself the big goal and then being prepared to take every single necessary step, that's the only way to be successful.
The importance of family
Scientists have investigated why people are differently optimistic: 30 percent is DNA, specifically how quickly neurotransmitters are broken down. 20 percent is luck, positive experiences that reinforce each other. A good half is a supportive environment where you learn this. Why do you think you are the way you are?
Those are the most important factors. Above all, you're shaped by the family you grow up in. I was my parents' third child, five years younger, and finally the heir apparent after two girls. I could have turned out to be a complete idiot; they spoiled me rotten. But that also led to me having absolute trust in people. I mean it: I approach people positively and with absolutely no prejudice, and I trust them completely. If I'm disappointed, I can deal with it later.
Learn more about Jürgen Klopp in his new role
Did your parents instil these values in you?
My father comes from the pre-war generation and was also very demanding. Did he tell me he loved me every day? No. But I felt it. He saw in me the guy who could achieve everything he couldn't, and he pushed me. I don't know if that's due to my upbringing, my DNA, or if it's my own decision. But what's important is: I want to go through life with optimism and be of value to the people I interact with. It's not enough if only I'm happy. That's connected to my Christian faith, to my upbringing. Things weren't always easy for me. There were moments when I could have gone astray.
For example?
I became a father very young, and at the time I didn't think that this is great. And today it's the best thing that could have happened to me. I see it as my mission to make the most of this opportunity. And by that I mean: from the life we have here. That's all there is to it.
Liverpool legend Steven Gerrard once said, "Jürgen Klopp always smiled when he entered the dressing room." Is that true? And did you consciously switch on that smile before you opened the door?
I wasn't aware of that. But of course, when you come into the dressing room, you have to prepare your team for a match as best as possible. It's about making sure that this group of people sitting there after I've spoken to them is stronger than before. I demand a lot from my players: courage, creativity, and unity. A smile is probably the only facial expression that makes that possible.
That's my thrill (about my new job). That I can finally satisfy my curiosity about the world
You once said, "If you could bottle and sell what I feel before a match, it would be illegal." What would the label say?
A thirst for success. A thirst for competition. A thirst for the game. A thirst for what you can influence. Tell me one thing in life you can do better if you're grumpy.
Do you have any tips on how to avoid that?
It's difficult to give advice to people I don't know. But I'll try. My career has gone perfectly, even though I haven't won every game. There are people who say, "He lost the Champions League final three times." That's legitimate. But how stupid would I be if I saw it that way? I don't think about the absurd goals Real Madrid scored against us every day. But I also don't think about the moments when I lifted the trophy every day. It's up to me how I deal with things that happen in life. If you lose a game, you can say, "The game plan was wrong. Back to square one." Or you can say, "The idea was good, but the execution wasn't optimal. The timing, the precision." And just like that, you have the opportunity to be better next time. Giving your all doesn't mean you'll get everything. But it's the only chance you'll get anything at all.
Exactly as Klopp intended: RB Leipzig have the youngest squad in the league
© Norman Konrad
In sports, there's a phenomenon when a team suddenly believes in itself intensely and sweeps everyone aside. How do you ignite that? What does it feel like?
We had a period in Liverpool where we only dropped five or six points at home over two and a half seasons. Absolutely insane! Unfortunately, we only won the league title once during that time. From the outside, you think: “They can do anything, it's easy for them”. But when you're in the thick of it, the pressure mounts to keep it going. You win a game, you're happy for a moment. Great. Three points. And then you look at your squad: “How are the guys doing?” Who do you need to bring down? Who do you need to build up? Who do you need to watch out for? Three days until the next game. You win again. Incredible. What do you do now? Being on a winning streak has nothing to do with enjoyment. It's effort, relief, effort, relief, and the longer the streak lasts, the more the pressure mounts. The overwhelming feeling was maximum relief. So much so that I almost had trouble staying on my feet. Okay, the pit stop is ticking, let's go. It always goes on.
A new challenge with Red Bull
Are there similar extreme situations in your new job?
Well, first of all, I don't miss the adrenaline. And fundamentally, I'm still connected to the game, of course – perhaps in a less intense way, because I'm not directly on the pitch. But I'm still invested in our teams and coaches. I'm no longer the driver, but more of a passenger. I observe the situation and am happy when we arrive. I'm really excited about my job, about the conversations with people in different positions, in different countries, with constant exchange. I learn something new every day. And that's my thrill. That I can finally satisfy my curiosity about the world.
What has changed in your new role? And what has perhaps remained the same?
I don't miss the changing room. I was there often enough. And it doesn't smell particularly great in there either. The first year at Red Bull was incredibly intense. We initiated a lot of things and broke down old patterns. Just like at my previous clubs, I didn't arrive and tell people on day one what they needed to do differently. I want to know who I'm dealing with, what they're doing, and why. Then we can talk about changes and improvements.
I imagine a global office job like this as the opposite of the changing room. You do a lot via video calls and messenger. You're distant. People are doing other things. How do you create a sense of connection and keep people motivated?
It's a matter of mindset. Just video calls without ever having met the people are difficult. But I meet everyone twice, and then it works. It's as personal as you make it. I get up in the morning and have five calls, talk to people about the important things, and I'm regularly on-site to gather new impressions.
What a coach does is clear, but what does a Head of Global Soccer do?
I want to be a partner unlike any other in world football. An asset that no one but the RB coaches have. A head coach in modern professional football doesn't have anyone at the club he can ask a question. Everyone thinks that he must know best. And now, if one of our coaches has a problem, he can call me, and I might know the answer because I've been in the same shoes.
So you're also a sparring partner – what do the coaches ask before or on a match day?
I'm in constant contact with all our coaches. It's about developing a basis for discussion and introducing new ideas that they hadn't considered. One question that comes up again and again is: “How do you assess things?” The biggest driver in sports is public pressure. How do you deal with it? If I were to write a book, it would be about that. It would be short: Just ignore it. One sentence in 200 pages. Coaches put enough pressure on themselves. How do you react to a public debate? Not at all. You can learn that from me. We want to play the best possible football and achieve our own goals. Not be dictated to by others. We're usually not the biggest fish in the pond, so we have to find new and unique solutions. And helping people to be and remain courageous – that's a rewarding task.
Belief in the future helps us imagine what a positive outcome could look like
A new challenge with RB Leipzig
You've been involved in reboots quite frequently in your career: in Mainz, Dortmund and at Liverpool. Now, RB Leipzig have had a major overhaul. Where do you get the optimism that the restart will be successful?
Crisis as an opportunity. You have to make a quick decision after negative experiences. RB was a club accustomed to success, having established itself as a new team in the Champions League. A real success story, rare in Europe. RB is young, vibrant. And that wasn't quite right anymore. Plug it in. Restart. Back to square one. Fresh blood into a functioning system, and that's exactly what we did together with the club, and we once again have the youngest squad in the league. You have to keep refining your football, but that's normal.
You spent a long time in the Bundesliga, a long time in the Premier League. Now you're simultaneously in different professional leagues. What are you learning about football from that?
In terms of intensity, the Premier League is incomparable. The best players, top-notch training, 100 percent commitment. Two cup competitions, a bigger league. Incredible. France – that's the league of talent. Japan is a really exciting league, structured completely differently because the talents there are still at university and only join the league at 23. They've matured as individuals. They're simply different, exciting systems. That's why we don't always want to simply apply the Bundesliga or Premier League model, but rather find a way, adapted to the respective cultural context, to showcase this wonderful game in the right light.
You spoke earlier about the public's impatience. How can sustainable development be achieved under these conditions?
Of course, you have to solve the immediate problems. But I've always assumed that I'll be there for a long time in my various positions – not because I'm overly optimistic about my chances, but because that's my way of thinking. I'm not a vagabond. I want to get to know people, understand things, have an impact, and then hopefully be successful. Development takes time. We've made a start at RB Leipzig. And now we'll see how much time we need. Seven, ten, twelve years. It doesn't matter.
You started your first coaching job 25 years ago. When you watch games from the 2000s today, do you think: ‘Did I just turn on slow motion?’ What are the key drivers of change in football in the coming years?
When I was a professional in the nineties, we were given salt tablets before training and weren't allowed to drink anything. We trained completely dehydrated. A lot has changed since then, tactically, in training methodology. My job has changed dramatically. If I started out screwing a screw into a wall in Mainz, by the end I was piloting a space shuttle in Liverpool. But there are limits. Biomechanically. In recent years, the amount of running covered hasn't exploded from 100 to 150 kilometres. The moment you give the players time to perform, to recover, and to train, football will get its next boost.
How would you describe the mood back home in Germany?
I live in Mainz, in Gonsenheim. I don't conduct surveys, but I travel a lot and listen. The mood isn't particularly good, I know that. But there have always been problems – people just tend to forget them quickly. The current ones always seem to be the biggest and most intractable. A few things are new and unexpected: that we have war in Europe again. The political views that aren't mine are becoming more popular. I really don't envy politicians.
Klopp has swapped the changing room for an office in his new role
© Norman Konrad
Why?
It's impossible to please everyone. No matter what you decide, one faction will cry out: "Have you all gone mad?!" People who still get involved and face this opposition have my respect. As long as I see that someone is genuinely trying to do the right thing, I'm not critical. Because always doing the right thing is practically impossible. I'm a proponent of common sense – re-examining things, thinking them through again. And that brings us back to optimism: Belief in the future helps us imagine what a positive outcome could look like. And that leads to the desire to work towards making it happen.
Can you train yourself to be optimistic?
My outlook on life is based on reflecting on the things that have happened to me. No one ever told me that you have to deal with headwinds and setbacks one way or another. That was my decision. When you look at where I come from and where my career has led me, I think to myself, that’s actually impossible. And I'd like to pretend now that I knew the right path at every crossroads or crisis. But that wasn't the case. I hoped it was the right decision. And the next time, I was ready to risk everything again.
What does that look like in practice?
I don't want to give young people a recipe. I can only say that it worked for me. My professional life has been about 90,000 percent better than I ever imagined. But there were also other moments, like when my wife Ulla and I sat at the kitchen table and took stock about whether we could afford for me to put everything on football. We knew that if it didn't work out, we'd have to take the taxi. And then we both stepped on the gas. And in the end, it worked. It was a great journey, and so many people helped me along the way. Maybe that's the message: Be brave and surround yourself with the right people. Then things can turn out well.