|MAN 1| From Red Bull this is Beyond the Ordinary.
|NICK BRIGHT| Seven and a half thousand kilometers across the desert.
|WOMAN 1| 12 days of racing in the toughest conditions on Earth.
|NICK BRIGHT| Battling extremes of heat endurance and dehydration.
|WOMAN 1| Testing the very limits of your mental and physical fitness.
|NICK BRIGHT| And then there's the sand, miles and miles of sand.
|WOMAN 1| Sand that takes engines to the point of burnout.
|NICK BRIGHT| Welcome to Beyond the Ordinary from Red Bull. I'm Nick Bright and this is the podcast which explores what it takes to go further than others can even imagine. And nowhere is this more on display than in the toughest motorsport event on the planet: The Dakar Rally. Today, we're going to find out what it's like to race in it, what it does to the human body, mind and spirit, let alone the vehicles. Plus we'll find out who are the ones to watch at Dakar 2021, which gets underway on the 3rd of January. Now, let me introduce you to my co-driver for this episode, Dakar Daily's Caroline De Moraes. Caz, you love this event, don't you? What's your connection then to the Dakar?
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Yeah, I do love the Dakar. I came to the Dakar to work on it and report on it in 2017 as a complete newbie and I just fell in love with it. It's brilliant, because it's not like any other motorsport event. And it's not like your average rallying. It's nothing like Formula One, when people say, "Oh, there's Formula One drivers who have been to the Dakar." I'm like, “Yeah, but this is a completely different ball game altogether." You're racing across thousands of kilometers day after day and you're in the most hostile and testing conditions in terms of the desert climate. It's also a multi-discipline event. So there's not just a car class, there's also bikes, quads, trucks, and side by side cars, all racing across the desert. And anyone can take part as long as you're over 18, of course, so men and women compete against each other, as well as amateurs and professionals. So the camaraderie among the competitors is really unique.
|NICK BRIGHT| It's so funny, you know, having you here talking about this, because I think one of the very first times I ever saw you doing anything was presenting the Dakar a couple of years ago for Red Bull. So I'm looking forward to picking your brains on it.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Yeah, it's honestly, it's brilliant, one of my fondest memories. And when people say, "Ah, what's the memory that stays with you forever?" I remember it was my first Dakar. I was in the Argentinean desert and it was just completely dead quiet, silent and out of nowhere, you just heard... you were eating dust and then it was gone. And it was just back to complete silence. It was... it's amazing. There's no experience like the Dakar.
|NICK BRIGHT| That was, I was about to say, it sounds incredible. I'm very jealous that you've got to experience it, you know, in real life.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Yeah. Well, I was gonna say there's no experience like it, but I've only been a spectator. I'm sure that if you've actually competed in it, it's on another level.
|NICK BRIGHT| Well, we'll find out, because joining us on this virtual journey across the desert to help us navigate our way through the sand dunes and the searing heat of this famous historic race, we're joined by a former winner of the Dakar Rally, currently the only Brit ever to do so, Sam Sunderland. What's going on, Sam?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Hey, guys, how you doing?
|NICK BRIGHT| I wanted to get straight into my first question then and sum it up for us. What does the Dakar mean to you?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Boy it's a bit difficult to sum it up in just a sentence, you know. It's like such a long race and so much goes into it before you even get to the start, you know, with all the preparation, the training, or the effort from a team and the support guys around us. But I still really like, sort of, the adventure side about the Dakar, you know. As much as I'm a guy that goes there to race to win and fight every day with everything I have to try and win, I still like the idea of setting off each morning, not really knowing what's going to cross your path. You know, it can be 3am and it's raining outside, it's cold, you set off on your bike. And, you know, I'm still in love with that adventure side. You know, I think it kind of goes back to that first time you rode your bicycle when you had some freedom when your mom didn't have to take you somewhere, you were off on your own and you could go to your mate’s house. And I still feel that, you know. When you set off on a Dakar Rally each day, we don't really know what's going to be thrown at us.
|NICK BRIGHT| The schedule for this event is relentless. I mean, you have some crazy early starts day after day and you're riding for 10-12 hours, maybe sometimes even more. So how do you cope with that?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, you know, definitely the first day's all right because, you know, you're full of energy and motivation. But, you know, by day 4, 5, 6, 7, caffeine is definitely your friend and you become quite reliant upon it. You know, you wake up, have a coffee or Red Bull and set off on the road and, you know, sometimes it's raining outside, sometimes it's cold. I remember one time, I'm not sure if you were there, Caroline, when we woke up in Bolivia and it was like 4,000 meters altitude, the bivouac was flooded because it rained all night.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Oh, yeah.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, your tent was probably flown away.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Yeah, it was not fun.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| I remember in '17 one guy got hit by lightning on the liaison section and...
|NICK BRIGHT| What? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah.
|NICK BRIGHT| Got hit by lightning.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah.
|NICK BRIGHT| Like, like, actually?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, it was... it was crazy, because we were riding along and it was dry and I could see the storms ahead of us and I was thinking, "God, I hope we're going left or right in a minute and not into that storm." And yeah, sure enough, next minute we were in the storm and it was just raining like crazy. And then there was lightning going off everywhere. It was Ivan Jakes. Yeah, he got hit by lightning. I think he was more or less all right. A bit of a shock.
|NICK BRIGHT| Is he an X-Man or something now? You know, getting hit by lightning and he's... he's fine, you know? He's cracking on.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| A permanent haircut, you know?
|NICK BRIGHT| I'm starting to get used to this lingo now, but I've noticed you mentioned the word bivouac a few times. So what exactly is that?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| So like, if you picture a Dakar race, it goes for 12 days, 10,000 kilometers and it's like a moving circus. And each night, there's a bivouac which is like a campus, as such, where everybody has mechanics, support crews, team managers, chefs, masseuses, like the whole bandwagon of the rally. And it goes from A to B across the country and we'll go through the desert and they'll go on the road. So each night you arrive at a different camp.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| It sounds a little bit glamorous and glorified, but someone said to me: describe what it's like at the Dakar and I said, "You... it's like gruelling and you absolutely hate it." But then afterwards, when you look back and someone's like, "Caz, you want to do the Dakar again?" I'm like, "Yeah, love it. Absolutely." But while I'm there, I'm like, "Don't speak to me. I'm wet. I'm cold. I haven't had any sleep. I've got to get up. I've got to get a plane." And you arrive, you pitch your tent, you go and film, you hardly have much food. You're just like, "I can't do this." And then afterwards, the year on, you're back, yep, for the fourth year.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah. It's one of them things like if you ask a marathon runner at kilometer 44, if they're having a great time? Sure not, you know, but it's like the experience that you look back on and you add so much value to that end result by going through all these rough times. And I feel like the Dakar is definitely that sort of case. You pass a lot of rough moments, especially as a rider, you leave the bivouac. I'll say the extreme, I guess, you've left the bivouac one morning at 3am and you arrive back at 4pm after going through goodness knows what all day. That's quite a long time to be on your own going through all these things that are thrown at you. It's definitely... you definitely have a few conversations with yourself along the way, you know.
|NICK BRIGHT| So I guess what truly makes this race unique and unlike any other is not the ridiculous length of it, or the distance covered which, you know, is incredible in itself, but it's actually the setting, the desert. And Sam, you know, you're here to tell us firsthand what it's actually like to battle all the elements that come at you in the desert, the heat, the exhaustion, the unforgiving terrain, but also the thing that I wanted to pick up on in the desert is actually, you know, people associate the desert with absolutely, you know, baking in the desert during the daytime, but then at nighttime, it can get freezing cold there as well. So how do you deal with all of these variables that have been thrown at you whilst trying to concentrate on a rally?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yes, for sure it's no easy task. I'll say the worst so that you can understand the extremity of it, but I remember being on the same day, we was at 5,000 meters altitude and, like, minus six snowing in Bolivia and in the afternoon, we were in plus-45 degrees in the dunes of Argentina. So, if you imagine the length of one stage, I think the longest one I had was '17, was 1,250 kilometers. It's like driving from the south of England to the north. So you can change quite a lot the terrains, the weather, the mountains or the dunes. And yeah, that day, it was so rough because you can't take a huge big rain jacket with you, big gloves with you, because once you set off in the morning, you've got to carry all that stuff with you all day. So we're always trying to be as light and nimble as we can. And yeah, you're either freezing cold and wishing you had more layers on or baking hot and wishing you had like an aero jacket on or something.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| That's what I think makes the bikes category so unique because I've always said, "If I was ever going to do a Dakar it would be in a car." There is no way I would do it on a bike, you're so exposed.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, it feels like it on the bike as well to be honest. I think you're so exposed even if your day goes fairly normal, but if you come unstuck and have a bit of a get-off, you've not got seatbelts on, you've not got a cage around you. Yeah, things can go downhill pretty fast. So, you know, on top of being tired or cold or hot or dehydrated or this, that and the other, you're trying to race and beat, you know, however many other guys that are also trying to beat you. It's a fairly big task trying to juggle it all around, you know, with the navigation, the speed and you're always coming over new terrain, like, you're not doing laps at the same circuit which is like most endurance racing. So you kind of know the line. Every time you come over a blind rise in the desert you're trying to read if you should stay to the left or the right or is it stony? Does it look like there could be a river or washout behind that rise or is it a sharp corner? So, you're constantly calculating what's coming up and it's like risk management because if you slow down for everyone, you'll be 5-10 minutes behind at the end of the day and we're trying to win. So, it's definitely quite a few things juggle about, but I keep saying that all these days and all these things you go through, add so much value to it. And sometimes the mechanics or the team manager asks you, "How was your day?" You just look at him like plainly and like, "Yeah, it was all right." Because so much has happened since 3am, that if you started to explain about it, you'd just get lost, you know.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| So Sam, you touched on the line, so maybe explain to people who don't know, who are listening, how important the line is.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| So, at the start of each day, we'll get a road book, which is quite prehistoric. It's like a pirate's treasure map, almost rolled up, and we wind it into the bike. And we've got like a little electronic button that scrolls each note. And they're basically rally notes, which before we arrived, you know, the organisation have planned out the route. And everyone has the same road book each day. And we have to navigate off of that. And, like, the basic terms of it would be, we have our auto meter, which counts to kilometers, and an electronic compass. So it's like zero to 360 degrees. And you basically navigate off of, you know, kilometer one to the right kilometer, two to the left in simple terms. And then when we're in off piece, as they call it, which is like open dunes where you're not on a four-by-four track or a designated, like, gravel road, you just follow the compass heading until the next note. If you're the first bike on the route, the bikes always set off first in the race, and then it's the cars and then the trucks. So you're the first bike, and it's a stage where you've got maybe a 400-500 kilometers stage and maybe 100 kilometers of it is in the dunes, you've just got this, like, clean desert to ride through. You don't really want to start in front on a day where there's a lot of sand dunes, wherever you go, you draw a line in the sand. So the guy behind you kind of pushes quite a lot to your line. And kind of cross-checks his navigation as opposed to being completely on the navigation. So yeah, it becomes a bit strategic, the race in, on those sandy days for sure.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| And it can be won or lost because, I remember there was one year where Toby Price, who's one of your KTM team-mates, he ended up getting lost and it cost him the competition. So, it is really hard, right?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, as a rider, like, you can always ride fast and you can navigate because you can, you know, ride into the lines and hope that the other guy's gone the right way, but the navigation part is a huge, huge part. Because you can be riding as fast as you want, but if you're going the wrong way, it's for nothing. In '17 I got the lead on day five of a 12-day race. And I remember coming into day 10 and the stage was looking like really difficult navigation. It was gonna be a bit of chaos. You know, in the briefings, they were like, it's gonna be really rough tomorrow to find the way. And, imagine with having a had a 25-minute lead, which sounds a lot but it can be gone in, you know, one turn up the wrong riverbed. And it becomes quite stressful to try and manage the navigation side because it's like trying to play a chess match where you need to be calm, cool and collected and make smart decisions, but at the same time you're racing through the desert and trying to read the terrain as fast as you can. So yeah, the stress certainly creeps on up when you got the lead and, you know, a bit of weight on your shoulders.
|MAN 1| This is Beyond the Ordinary.
|NICK BRIGHT| As we mentioned right at the start of the podcast, men and women actually compete against each other in the Dakar, ain't that right, Caz?
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Yeah. As with other forms of motorsport, it's not segregated by gender. To date, only one female has ever won the Dakar category outright and that was the German driver, Jutta Kleinschmidt. She won the car class in 2001. But there's another woman who's become a biking legend of the Dakar and is challenging for those top-place finishes, and that's Laia Sanz. There are few women who have achieved as much as Laia has in this gruelling event, having completed every Dakar that she has started, which not even Sam can boast, and Laia frequently finishes top of the females as well as finishing in ninth place overall in 2015. I caught up with Laia straight off the back of testing in Dubai and asked her how her prep for the Dakar was going.
|LAIA SANZ| Yeah, I'm fine. It's been a tough year for everybody, but for me it's been really tough because I had Lyme disease. Yeah, I've been struggling a lot and it was really tough times for me. But now I'm happy to be back on the bike.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| I mean, there's not many people that would say, I've had Lyme disease, but now I'm training for the Dakar 2021.
|LAIA SANZ| Yeah, of course. Yeah, now, it's not a long time until Dakar and I just started riding in Dubai last week. So, as you can imagine, my preparation is not perfect, but I will try to do my best and I hope to feel better and better and to be at least healthy during Dakar.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Well, let's talk about the Dakar. Is, I mean, I think this is your 11th Dakar. Is that right, this year? And you've completed all of them.
|LAIA SANZ| Yeah, always.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| So what is it about the Dakar that makes you keep coming back year after year?
|LAIA SANZ| I don't know because when you are there, you sometimes, you ask yourself what I'm doing here? So sure, that is something that makes us come back and to love this race and this crazy race and really tough race. And I think it's, it has something special, some... it's not only racing, it's also an adventure. And also, it's a different atmosphere from other races. All riders, more or less help each other. And it is something really special. And then, of course, it's a big challenge, makes you push more than your limits and I don't know, but we, we all come back and we are all in love with, with this race.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Because you've had a really tough few years. In 2018, you were struck down with quite a bad virus. 2019 you seriously injured your tibia and this year, Lyme disease on top of a global pandemic. What motivates you to keep going when you are forced to have so much time out? What keeps you motivated?
|LAIA SANZ| I think it's because I love so much what I do. Yeah, the last three years have been really tough. Especially mentally, because I want to ride, to do sports, especially with this Lyme disease it's been really tough. I wanted to do so many things and I couldn't. My body was not following my mind and this has been really tough, but I think my big motivation is that I really love what I do and I feel really lucky to ride every day when I'm, when I'm healthy and this is my job. So I do what I love as a job and it's my main motivation.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Well, you know that there aren't that many sports where men and women compete against one another directly. Do you like that the Dakar is one of those unique sports where it's a level playing field for everyone?
|LAIA SANZ| I like. Also, of course, I fight to do a good race rally and overall there is also a female class, but my goal is always to be good on the overall standings. And it's nice that also there is a female class. Everybody does the same stages, same case, with the same bikes or cars. So everybody's with the same tools and this is something really nice and you're competing against everybody. And, but I think that biggest opponent in the Dakar is yourself. So this is the same for everybody. It doesn't care if you are a man or a woman. This is a question that everybody always asks me, "How is it to be a woman in Dakar, because it's very tough?" And I always answer, "It's tough, but it's for everybody, men and women."
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| How much is it down to preparation, you know, maybe more so for women, when it comes to preparing the body physically for the endurance element of the Dakar?
|LAIA SANZ| Yeah, of course. We are different. We have different physical conditions and we have less strength and less endurance and this is real. It's not that women cannot do things, but I've... always during my life, I think I had always to work a little bit more to be on the level. And I think this gives me a lot of discipline and motivation and it's something that now is helping me a lot. It's not about being a woman or a man. I think it's more about how you are. Your personality, your education, your experience in life, your – I think it's more about that than – I am not like this because I'm a woman and it's just because I'm like this. It's my character.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Let's go right back to the beginning for a second, because when you first started racing, there weren't many other women in the sport. Is that right? So have you seen that change and, I guess, would you advocate for more women to get into rallying, particularly the Dakar?
|LAIA SANZ| Yeah, when I started racing in trials, I was always the only one. And women’s trials doesn't exist at that time, but now, I'm really proud seeing so many young girls riding trials and I think it's something that I helped and I feel really proud about that. And also, enduro is growing, trial is growing, the level is increasing a lot and, and maybe in rally the change is coming later because it's, it's so tough. But for the future, I think, much more girls will come and for sure, with a great level.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| And Dakar is a bit different, isn't it? Because there's a real sense of camaraderie among the competitors, almost like a family a bit. Tell us what that's like. Is it more supportive amongst the women because there's less of you or is it the same with the male competitors as well? I mean, it's not every race that you see a rider crash, and then the next rider stops to help them out.
|LAIA SANZ| Yeah, I think it's all of us. It's not between girls. It's all the riders help each other because at the end, your, your life can be in the hands on, of other riders. Of course, when there is a crash, the first to arrive there is another rider. So you need to stop and to help, of course. And it's something really nice now because it can happen between riders that they maybe are fighting for victory. Also, when you have a mechanical problem, or you, you run out of oil, somebody helps you because at the end, the day after you can be the one who needs help. So it's always like that and it's something really special in this race.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Despite the setbacks of 2020 and also the interruption to your training as a result of the Lyme disease, what is your aim for Dakar 2021?
|LAIA SANZ| I really don't know this year. Usually my goal is to be top 15, but, but I know this year I'm not well prepared. So I will go there and see what happens, because also I don't know how my body will, will be after so many months resting. I didn't ride the rally bike since, since last Dakar and I don't know how my body will react. And yeah, Dakar is always really tough also if you are healthy, so I don't want to imagine how it will be for me this year. So I don't want to put too much pressure on a result. I just want to be there at the start line and then, and then see what, what happens.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| And for someone who's listening to this and has never really followed the Dakar before, can you sum up what it means to you in just three words?
|LAIA SANZ| It's, I should say in one word, because it's, it's my life. It's, it's all my life, it's around Dakar because I spent all the year preparing Dakar and it is the main goal. I, I'm working just for, for this. It's the goal of the year and, and yeah, and also it gives me so many friends and experiences. I think it changed my life a lot. So yeah, I would say this is my life.
|MAN 1| This is Beyond the Ordinary.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Laia Sanz there. She's always really lovely to talk to, but she's a fierce competitor, isn't she, Sam?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| She's unbelievable, you know. I've seen her come back from stages where she's had a huge crash and she's got a sore this or an injured that or a concussion and she's so strong in her head. It's really inspiring. And she's a really nice girl as well. You know, she's super down to earth and she's really impressive.
|NICK BRIGHT| So Sam, you know, we've spoken about what it's like to actually take part in the Dakar, but what about the build up to it, you know? Do you have to be, you know, in the gym? The thing that a lot of people will compare this to, because it's the most well-known, is Formula One, and Formula One drivers always talk about having to be physically fit.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, certainly you can compare it to, you know, the Formula One guys where they're pulling so many g-force and their bodies are going under all these stresses, but at the same time, as you compare it to that, ours is 12 days back-to-back. So, I mean, it's sort of a, it's kind of a reference between that and the Tour de France somewhere in the middle, you know, because the day-to-day fatigue builds up, you know. It's like snowballing. Maybe you'll be alright for the first day, the second day, but as you start getting into day 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and, you know, they just announced the route for this year and we've got a few 500-600 kilometer special stages. So the fitter and stronger you are, the more well recovered you are for the following day.
|NICK BRIGHT| Yeah, I guess it's like the difference between literally, you know, Mo Farah, and the distance that he does in, I don't know, Usain Bolt or something. You know, like those guys have a different training regime to the long distance guys and I guess that's a way that you can maybe compare it? I don't know.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, a bit, but the, the thing that's hard is like the day after day. You just get tired. And, like, if you think to yourself, if you have a heavy weekend, it was one of your mates' birthdays and then, you know, Monday morning comes around and you're not quite as fresh as you should be. It's like absolutely that when you start getting into day 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. The alarm goes off and you're like, "Right, another day. Come on, then. Let's go." You're like, the voice in your head starts to have a little battle back, you know?
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Well, Sam, we've talked a lot about what this race does to the human body, but it's super punishing on the vehicles too. I want you to take a listen to this. It's an onboard recording from one of the Red Bull cars in 2019.
|NICK BRIGHT| Wow! So, so you can hear what it's doing to the car there, Sam. You know, trying to drive over this massive wall of sand. You know, I'm guessing the bikes are a little bit different 'cause they're not quite as heavy as a car but, you know, just, you know, try to explain to us what it's like. Is it that punishing on your bike?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, certainly. You know, the bikes take such a hard time because it's the temperature, the sandy terrain. Honestly, it's an absolute miracle that, you know, you don't have more mechanicals than, than we do, because I remember when I was a kid racing motocross and my dad used to, like, get onto me about not having the bike started up too long before the race, because you didn't want to put time on the engine and taking care of it, you know. And now I race the Dakar and I just, the bike is just nonstop all day. And so, I remember in Argentina sometimes, I've just been flat out on the limiter for, like, 45 minutes and just thinking to myself, "There's no way that this is gonna last, you know." But yeah, it's really a testament to the engineers there at KTM that, you know, [they] do all the testing before the race and get the bike kind of in the best way it can be before the start for sure.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Sam, I wanted to ask you about injuries because we know that the Dakar as we've explained is not just a few hours or a day or two days. It's, you know, a long, gruelling race. So much so that it attracts, you know, André Villas-Boas from football has wanted to tick it off his bucket list. So he came and competed. We see the Formula One guys. We see these big names want to come into the Dakar, but it's not easy. It is not easy to finish and it's not easy to finish injury-free.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| There's a fine line between pushing to win and trying to find the limit of being as fast as possible, navigating correctly and not crashing and, you know, it's a little bit of a juggling act. In 2016, I actually missed the Dakar because I'd won a race there in Morocco which was kind of the biggest race for me outside of the Dakar. And then three days later, I broke my femur. I had to have surgery in the deepest, darkest alleys of Morocco in the middle of the desert in some shady hospital and now my right leg is two centimeters shorter than the left one. And, you know, all these things I went through to come back to fitness to go on and win that next year. For me, it meant so much. Like, if I brought my Dakar trophy home to you now and dropped it on the side and was like, "There, that's yours now," you will be like, "Ah, it's cool, it's pretty," but it doesn't really mean much to you as such. But for me, when I look at my Dakar trophy, I know all the sacrifice and all that I went through to get it done. And, you know, I feel a huge sense of achievement and pride in it. And I think, the Dakar is like so many races all in one. There's the guys that are at the front of the race fighting every kilometer for, you know, for every second to try and be the fastest guy and win. And then in the same tracks, the same stages, the same weather, the same everything, there's guys that are there just to finish. You know, their goal is just to arrive to the finish each day. And you know, they might have raised money through sponsorships or charities to arrive there to go on this big adventure and this huge challenge. And you know, I remember speaking to this South African guy after I won and he told me that his overall stage time was three times mine. And I just looked and thought to myself, "Wow!" That kind of put it to me, like, I felt like I went through hell, because in the end, everybody's just doing their best, you know. So he's at his maximum as I was at my maximum. So he's done the same race as me, but three times of it in terms of hours. And I just looked at him with, like, huge amount of respect, because I just couldn't imagine myself going through that what I did times three, you know?
|MAN 1| This is Beyond the Ordinary.
|NICK BRIGHT| Right. Okay, aside from Sam and Laia, Caroline, who are the ones to watch this year?
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Well, I mean, you're, when Sam's on the line and you're asking me, I mean, that's terrible. I've got to say the KTM boys because Toby Price, I mean, he won it with a broken wrist. I mean, Toby is definitely one to watch. Sam, of course. I've got to also say in the cars, Peterhansel, Mr Dakar. I, I never rule him out, because he's just so brilliant. But Sam, you're the expert here. Enough about me, who do you think are the ones we need to look out for?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, I can't comment on the bikes, can I, because of course, I want to win myself.
|NICK BRIGHT| I love that. Love that. Forget everybody else. They’re terrible. Me.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| No, no. It's, certainly we've got a lot of competition and Honda won this year. So they ended the 17-year win streak of KTM. So, definitely gunning to get that back, so hopefully, one of the KTM boys, if not me. And in the cars there's like you say, Mr Dakar himself, Stéphane Peterhansel. So, I don't know how many he's won. Like, I speak to him at Red Bull events and sometimes he comes out with these numbers and I'm just, like, "I don't think I was even born then." You know, like, he's really unbelievable and I don't know how old Carlos Sainz is, but I feel like he's been around forever and, you know, his son's racing Formula One now. So, must mean he’s getting on a bit. So, like you say, the Dakar is an extreme race. It's crazy, it's gnarly, it's so many days, it's hot, it's, you know, all the rest of it. And, you know, he's won. And I think in the cars, definitely the experience comes into play during these long stages. And it's going to be really cool to watch. You know, as much as I'm racing, I want to win myself.
|NICK BRIGHT| Yeah. Well, you mentioned Carlos Sainz. He's actually 58. We've done the research. He's the defending champ. So let's hear from him now.
|CARLOS SAINZ| The Dakar is one suit per year. So, you are working the whole year and you have one opportunity. One mistake, you are out. Then it's a great challenge, you know. It's a challenge for the team, a challenge for the cars, a challenge physically, a challenge driving, you know. When you finish the race, you respect everybody a lot, because you know what the others have been going through and, and I think that makes this race a great challenge for everybody. Either you like it, the Dakar or you hate it. I think many people try and say, "This is, you know, this is totally crazy. This is not for me." But when you are facing a strong and a difficult challenge, I think it brings the best from everybody in our team, in our, in our professional, in an amateur, that's why the amateurs they love when they finish because it is, it is not easy. I think the Dakar is difficult to, to say in one word, but crazy challenge, I will say. Of course, I believe we can have a chance of winning again, but I know it's, it's not going to be easy. I think I can do 15 more, but, no, I don't know. I'm joking, of course.
|NICK BRIGHT| So, Sam, as we heard there: Dakar, a really tough race to win, even tougher, though, to defend your title. Tell me about that because, you know, you're still trying to get that second title and it's eluded you so far, hasn't it?
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, certainly, I don't know how much you think about it at the start. Like definitely when I won in '17, I went to '18 as number one on the bike. So everybody's in some way gunning for you, but on the other hand, the Dakar and the rally discipline is a little bit different. Like, it's not quite the same as racing each other on the same track doing laps and laps and you can, like, block past somebody or come flying down the inside into a corner as you would in F1 or MotoGP. It's more about, like, your best effort and your best stage time against somebody else's. So sometimes you have a good day and you arrive to the finish. And, you know, if Toby beat me, I'm like, I share a camp with Toby, and I'm like, "You did good there today." Like, "Nice work, dude." And I'll try and do it tomorrow. So yeah, he's definitely got a lot of camaraderie amongst the guys. And you know it's always hard to repeat, isn't it? Because the first time you’re always just that big target of number one? You know, and it's kind of like during the race, when you're leading, you've got something to lose. And when you're even just a second, you're only thinking about win, win, win, win, win. And as soon as you're leading, you think about how not to lose it. So it's quite difficult to stay focused and clear-headed and, you know, put in a good performance.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| And Sam, what are you most looking forward to about the Dakar 2021 race? Because I know that for so long, it was in South America, which was completely different terrain, it felt, to Saudi.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, for me, like, for one, this huge adventure, the sporting side which I love, also the competition side, there's a lot of things I look forward to. And definitely, last year, I broke my back on day five after I was going pretty well. I feel like a sense of, I need to get a bit of redemption and really looking forward to getting into the dunes of Saudi. So, looking forward to the dunes, for sure.
|NICK BRIGHT| I just can't get over when, you know, part of this podcast, you know, we're speaking to so many amazing people doing amazing things. And, you know, when, when you athletes just drop in, you know, "I broke my back on day five, you know." Like, it's just like you've stubbed your toe. I just can't get over it.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Yeah, it comes with the territory in some ways, you know. Like I said before, you're always pushing the limit between riding fast but not too fast. And I think when you mix in the fact that you're always coming over new terrain and trying to judge what might be there, you know, for so long and so many hours, there's so many factors that come into play. But yeah, it can quite easily go wrong and kind of comes with the territory a little bit.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| I absolutely can't wait to get out there now. Sam, thank you so much for joining us and sharing so many wonderful stories.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| No worries. It's been cool to tell you a few, and hopefully, I can tell you a few more in the future.
|NICK BRIGHT| Yeah, and all the best for what is said to be another epic race in January, mate. It's been lovely speaking to you.
|SAM SUNDERLAND| Thank you very much.
|NICK BRIGHT| Right, the best way for you to follow all this year's action is to catch the Dakar Daily Show every day from the preview show on the second of January right the way through to the final day of racing. You can catch it exclusively on Red Bull TV.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| There's also a web series coming up on Red Bull TV and it's all about the manufacturers KTM. So make sure that you check that out as well on Red Bull TV or on Red Bull Motorsports YouTube channel. There's lots of stuff on there.
|NICK BRIGHT| Clearly, right? I'm genuinely excited to follow it this year and I really hope this podcast has whet your appetites as well.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| Yeah, definitely drop us a review if you enjoyed this Dakar special and hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, so you don't miss any of the amazing episodes that we've got coming up.
|NICK BRIGHT| We are literally covering it all on Beyond the Ordinary: sport, adventure, gaming, dance. You name it, we got it right here.
|CAROLINE DE MORAES| So until next time, take care and we'll catch you soon.
